Marriage Equality in Thailand | Up for Discussion with Danny Kittinun Daramadhaj

In this episode of CB Up for Discussion, we are joined by Danny Kittinun Dharamadaj, President of the Rainbow Sky Association of Thailand and a leading advocate for LGBTQ+ rights in Southeast Asia. Danny is joined by his interpreter, Ohm Rapeepun Jommaroeng. For ease of listening, we have retained the English interpretation only.  Danny shares his inspiring journey from entrepreneur to activist and the pivotal role he played in Thailand’s historic achievement of marriage equality—the first in Southeast Asia. 

Throughout the episode, we explore several key areas: 

• Danny reflects on the early struggles faced by the LGBTQ+ community in Thailand, including societal stigma, legal challenges, and the fight against HIV/AIDS discrimination. 

• We learn about the long and complex advocacy process that led to the passing of the Marriage Equality Act in Thailand, highlighting the legal and political hurdles overcome along the way. 

• Danny discusses the significance of this milestone for LGBTQ+ inclusion in Thailand and the broader region, emphasizing the importance of legal recognition for equal rights and protections. 

• We also explore how intersectional inclusion, legal knowledge, and community organizing have combined to drive progress and empower sexual diversity in Thailand. 

Join us for an enlightening conversation about resilience, advocacy, and the ongoing journey toward equality and inclusion in Southeast Asia. Tune in now! 

[Jeiz Robles]
Hi everyone, happy pride month. My name is Jeiz Robles and my pronouns are she and hers.

I'm the Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in Community Business. I'm a neurodivergent bisexual Filipina currently living in Thailand and I will be your host for today's episode. Moving to a country that recognises my 19-year relationship with my partner has always been a dream for me.

When we moved to Thailand, Bangkok in particular, a little over two years ago, I've always seen it as a temporary stop considering equal marriage was something the country has only aspired for at the time. A couple of years later, it has been great to see the journey LGBTQ+ activists in Thailand have taken to reach the milestone of marriage equality in the country, a first in Southeast Asia. So as we celebrate pride month, we would like to celebrate the milestone for Thailand and understand what the journey to marriage equality look like in the hopes of inspiring progress for the rest of Southeast Asia.

Today we will also explore what this milestone means towards greater LGBTQ+ inclusion in Thailand. So I'm very honoured to introduce our guest today, Danny Kittinan Daramadhaj and with him his interpreter, Ohm. President of the Rainbow Sky Association of Thailand and lawyer, Danny is a leading advocate for LGBTQ+ rights and Danny has played a key role in this transformative legislation which went in effect on the 23rd of January this year.

So Danny, thank you for joining us. Could you tell us a little more about yourself and what inspired you to become such a passionate advocate for LGBTQ+ rights in Thailand?

[Danny]
Hello, Kun Jeiz and also all the audience. So well, we have to accept that, well, in Thai language, we call the alternative, the gender group of people in the Thai language.

So that's why it makes me, it motivates me to actually study the laws pertaining to our community. So when I grew up, by saying that we are the people of sexual diversity in terms of experiencing the legal issues and we have been affected because I have been affected personally in terms of the laws and policy before I turned myself into the advocates under the Rainbow Sky Association of Thailand because it was a business, it's an entrepreneur. Before that, I did a lot of entertainment, I did housing projects and we have seen a lot of that.

There was a project that they took to actually construct a village for LGBT people in the past, but then again, it was attacked by the society back then a lot. They are promiscuous, they're bad people. So the business that we tried to establish back then, it was not possible.

So when I turned myself into an entertainment business, the situation was also similar to the Stonewall in 1969 of New York because the police raided in our entertainment establishments saying that, oh, this is a lot of gay people hanging out like that. So that's why the situation is, I call this situation like a Thailand Stonewall incident. So that's why we have to stand up and fight for ourselves in terms of discrimination on the ground of sexual orientation and identity.

So I have to find the opportunities and organisations to work. And at that time, there was the Rainbow Sky Association of Thailand in which I'm the president right now, but it was established more than 20 years ago. But at the beginning, in the first two years, it came from the issues of HIV and AIDS led by the late Secretary General.

He was the social worker at the Thai Record Society and he just passed away two months ago. So 20 years of the journey, we have been a long way. So eventually, the issues that we have fought for, at the beginning, 26 years ago, it was mostly on HIV.

Jeiz, do you know that in terms of HIV, it came to Thailand approximately 40 years ago. So 40 years ago, it was led by someone who identified himself as the people with same-sex practises. So the news said that that person who brought HIV into Thailand was a homosexual and had sex with a same-sex person.

So while the whole world could not accept HIV even back then. So that was the... and that was still struggling in terms of strengthening the LGBT community back then.

So these two different issues were combined, creating a chance to build the capacity of LGBT community. At that time, on HIV prevention at the beginning, and later, the issues about the human rights and human rights violation became addressed later and creating opportunities so that they became the point of our work under Rainbow Sky Association of Thailand. And then we have the board members, and then I became the member, the vice president, and then the president of Rainbow Sky, totally seven years.

And my point is that I would like to bring all three different ways. First of all, we are part of the LGBT community. And second point is that we have the knowledge, our legal knowledge.

And third is that we have the opportunities to serving as the NGO and CBO for people with sexual diversity. All three are tied together. All of this has inspired me to do this, to advocate.

A number of things that I have done in the past, starting from the beginning, when the WHO said that they lift out the homosexuality out of the ICD-10, right? About 30 years ago that we started to do that. And later we do it with the military conscription in Thailand, in terms of exempting trans women.

Because in the past, they were exempted on the ground of having their permanent mental illness, which is like a sickness and incapacitated person. So we changed that from having their permanent illness to what we call gender not conforming with biological sex, so that they have better rights and are no longer sick. So you can see that we are creating more space for LGBT people to advocate for our rights, because the WHO has already certified that we no longer have mental illness.

So this turned into our point to fight and advocate for our rights. And we started to have more roles in society until these days. So this is the brief introduction that I just like to lay off the other backgrounds to you.

[Jeiz Robles]
Thank you so much, Kun Danny. And it's really inspiring how you married all your expertise, your passion, and your drive towards intersectional inclusion, and really driving marriage equality, which is really a historic win for the country. And I know it hasn't been an easy journey, just in terms of how you talked about it.

And congratulations. Can you walk us through the process, specifically on the advocacy for marriage equality, and perhaps highlight what actually convinced Thailand to pass the Marriage Equality Act? How challenging was it?

[Danny]
Well, one thing that I could tell you is that the number that is not imperative in terms of family formation law, because we had no, we didn't understand what it means by equal marriage. What does it mean by civil partnership? We had no idea.

But we just wanted to have the same-sex marriage. It took 23 years, not 14 years, 23 years to actually achieve marriage equality in Thailand to become the first country. Because we saw that in 2001, Netherlands was the first country who had the marriage equality, right?

So deep down, deep down, we feel a little bit envious, because we know that Thailand is some kind of the LGBT-friendly country, and more advanced in terms of LGBT rights. And so the prime, and back then, the prime minister came out and said that, well, Thailand was not ready. And a lot of influencers or stakeholders among LGBT community, they did, nobody stood up back then in order to fight for themselves.

So on that day, it makes a, it makes a setback for 10 years, 10 years without any progress at all. So, so they were just only like researchers conducted in among the, among same-sex couples about their, about their need in terms of family formation. And the result turned out positive, saying that, yeah, well, we are all same-sex couples should be able to enjoy the same rights as any other heterosexual couples.

That's that, and laying the ground for marriage equality. And, and a lot of couples, actually, it will happen when, when the first case go to, to our one district office in Chiang Mai province, asking for marriage equality, and then the other way got rejected by the district office. And this could, was used as a ground to, to file a complaint to the National Human Rights Commission.

And then the commission says that, okay, not allowing them to get married is against the human rights principles. And also there are other issues like, you know, signed the medical consent already for the operation, a lot of issues like that. So this is why we started with the SIM, a life partnership back then.

It was a little difficult because it was during the coup d'etat. So we had, we was under the governments of the coup d'etat government is not like a democratic or elect, government from the election. So, so we had, so we were, we worked with the minister of justice, starting from the life partnership law first.

So by, by using the existing, by having another separate law, but you know, Jeiz, well, it didn't, it didn't end there because the inequality was tremendous between the two laws, because same-sex couple cannot sign the consent, medical consent, cannot be a representative for any criminal charges, cannot organise a funeral, cannot enjoy the spousal welfare, cannot enjoy the joint adoption.

A lot of, you know, unequal rights. So, and, and then the, and then somehow the world has discussed about the marriage equality. So we started to try to upgrade the life partnership bill to be, to be as as equal as possible.

And then there, and then there was one, one research conducted by the, by the master degree students in law saying that, saying that, well, eventually amending the law, there was nothing complicated. Just replace the term, you know, the term of two persons instead of a man and a woman, and between a man and a wife, that we replace it by the spouse. So one day, and then later we had the democratic government, that from the, from the move forward party and now to the apartheid party.

So they have brought, have taught this concept and the research and, and, and then push forward for marriage equality by just, you know, amending the terminologies in the existing law. So during, at the same time, there were two parallel laws, as you can see, right? The amendment of the existing civil commercial code law and the life partnership law in parallel.

So, but eventually when it got into the parliament, both, both laws were voted yes in favour. And, and, and all the drafts, actually there were, there were many different drafts in these two laws. But then when it turned, but then when, but later when during the passing the law, there were two laws and it was the advisor under the subcommittee.

There were so many obstacles because when we look at the two laws, they look pretty much identical between the life partnership law and marriage equality. So why, why, why two laws? You know, like a heterosexual couple using, on both can use both laws and then a same-sex couple can use only like a life partnership law, but it sounds, you know, unequal.

So that's why we were worried that the, that this could, could be the, could be the problem. But then again, there was one thing, one good thing happened because at that time, the Thai government had some kind of, you know, you know, was struggling, like who, who want, who, who to become the prime minister, you know, from one, one place to another. So it was too late.

So the time to, to continue the previous law was too late during the transition to, to the new government. So, so that's why, so, you know, according to Thai law, all the laws were abolished if the, there was a new government and the new government does not rectify the new law within the 90 days. But anyway, there were delays, you know, you know, the, the fight between two different parties who would come to prime minister between Srettha and Pita, right?

So, so all the laws were abolished and everyone has to set the zeros at the beginning. But that was good because, by the time that we have the prime minister Srettha as our new prime minister, there were, as since then, he was campaigning at the beginning saying that, oh, but before that, I should tell you that by the campaigning of the current Thai party before the election, no matter it was the current opposition party or the, or the government coalition parties right now, they said, they said that they don't want life partnership law. They only supported marriage equality when they campaigned for that. That was, that was a good thing.

So that's why, that's why eventually we didn't, in the new, in the new, in the new Srettha government, there was only the marriage equality law proposed. So the, there were different drafts from the, from the, from the civic draft, from the parliamentarians, from the government. They're all the drafts for the marriage equality.

So during the subcommittee elaboration, we combined all of these laws. You know, you know what we try to incorporate all the different drafts to be, to make it the most perfect possible. One thing that I can tell you is that there's a law, even though that was the draft amendment, but then again, it was almost perfect because, because I can say, I can say that this, what happened to it, it can be called a Thailand model because among the 38 countries that already have the marriage equality, actually we have quite advanced in terms of, you know, providing equal rights because, because for those existing countries, there were some discrepancies or unequal rights of those countries that already have the marriage equality.

And recently we have provided the study visit by the Chinese delegates. And also we present this one in Nepal as well. So when we said that in terms of, you know, you know, totally equal, equal marriage equality, we are not talking about a man and a woman only, but we talk about the two people.

And also that's what, that's one point. Another point is that we updated our law to be, to be, according to international standards, for example, the age of consent is now at the age of 18 years. And in terms of engagement in the past, only a man can propose the engagement, but now whoever, whoever can propose engagement.

And also another, another point is that we also care for the 43,000 provinces of Thailand who are mostly a Muslim community. We don't actually force them against their, against their religious belief. In terms of the law, we were worrying that if we amend, amend the civil and commercial law, another, at least a 50 law have to be amended.

So it would take a lot of work and a lot of people would be scared in order to amend the law of marriage equality. But now we could solve that by one suggestion saying that the, at the notion, at the, at the provision, at the end of the law saying that any law saying that a man and a wife or and a man and a woman, a husband and a wife, just, it could, it has to change automatically to a person and a person and a spouse and spouse. So no trouble anymore.

And now, and then later  there were some issues about the, you know, the adoption, but now we have it. And also marry, marrying with the foreign nationals in the past, it was just only limited to only the 37 existing, the marriage equality law. But now any, anyone can, can come and marry in Thailand between a Thai and another foreigners of any country in the world, or two foreigners can come and be married in Thailand as well.

And if, for example, in any countries that do not accept, for example, in Muslim countries, they can come and get married in Thailand if they want. And our law can be extended to, to, you can go to any 50 districts in Bangkok or any, any 850 other district offices across the country, and also at the Thai embassies as well, around the world. So this is why we said, we said that, I said that, that it's called the Thailand model because it's the, it's one of the perfectthing.

And then when you said that the first law in in Southeast Asia, actually, may I correct that? Actually, the first in Asia, because the Nepal and Taiwan, they have the same-sex marriage law, which is different from what we have. But, so, because the status of same-sex marriage appear in the country where there are laws for the civil partnership, so that's called same-sex marriage.

And the countries that have marriage equality, it's actually same-sex marriage plus, you know, marriage equality. So you have to understand that in Thailand, it's one law for everyone, everyone in Thailand, everyone in Thailand use the same law. So that's why we said that we are the first in Asia to, for marriage equality, because in Taiwan, they have a separate law, right?

Even though equal rights, but two different laws. But according to their, their court, court, court verdict. And for Nepal, it's also by the court verdict, right?

But the, but temporarily court verdict. And so at the moment here, people can get married in Nepal, but, but, but again, it's a separate law. So in Nepal, at the moment, I had just joined the forum recently, the people getting married to Nepal, they have to find a condition to the court, one by one couple by one couple.

So you have to actually, you know, each couple have to go to the court. So after getting married in Nepal, it would, it would be retrospective, you know, since the, since the day that I filed a complaint. So I just want to show you the ambience of the political nuances, you know, differences.

So you can see, so maybe, but, but I'm not comparing between Taiwan or Nepal that we are better. I just want you to see that we have different laws in three countries in Asia. Yeah.

Something like this.

[Jeiz Robles]
Yeah, no, thank you so much for clarifying that. That's very insightful because marriage equality is definitely different from same-sex marriage that, as you said, are what Taiwan and Nepal has. Thank you.

Just, I guess, I've taken so much from that because I'm really inspired by countries that have been successful in this journey, and I always keep on thinking about my home country, the Philippines. Like, how can we get there? So what I am taking out of that journey that you mentioned is, number one, the focus on family formation was the beginning, which is very relevant to the Asian context, which is good to understand.

And then bringing up inequality as being against human rights principles, as you mentioned how that case in Chiang Mai was brought forward was, I heard, a very monumental step. So having, I guess, people who will be willing to put forward their case and call out existing laws that are discriminatory are also, I guess, key. And then I also heard making it logistically easier.

For example, instead of looking at a new law, but instead look at marriage equality where it's easier because, as you mentioned, you just revise marriage, being between a man and a woman, just being about spouses and about being partners, and being able to convert existing laws by using more gender-neutral terms, I think is what I heard. And I also love how it includes other revisions to the laws, like you said, the age of consent, being updated, and how I didn't know that in Thailand only men can propose engagement. And it's good to know that now that has also been changed.

And, yeah, and the limitations in terms of foreign nationals were also addressed. That was actually my first question when the news came out. Is this something my wife and I can actually do in Thailand?

Because we got married in New York, but we would, of course, love to also be married here if possible. That said, there's one other thing where I heard the journey in terms of the new government transitioning can have an impact, right, into the progress that has been so far. But I'm glad that the new government also was still very supportive of this journey.

So, yeah, I'll go to my next question. We all know, Kun Danny, that marriage equality is a milestone, but it's only the beginning. You mentioned it earlier, Thailand has always been dubbed as a paradise for LGBTQ individuals.

But we all know, especially all of us who live here, that that's not a general statement and encompassing experience for everyone, especially for the local LGBTQ+ community. So what's next in advancing LGBTQ+ rights and eliminating gender discrimination in Thailand?

[Danny]
First of all, I would like to continue what you have just mentioned, that since it's been 23 years of our journey, right, and Thailand has been recognised maybe perhaps like a paradise or LGBT paradise. But in terms of, you know, living here, well, being an LGBT person here, no matter what you want to do, like to be a cabaret, to women holding hands, to guys holding hands. Well, in terms of, you know, daily routine, that could be called, they could be regarded as a paradise that we could do.

And also, as you can see, that the Thai Tourism Authority of Thailand has some of the commercials, you know, inviting people. And you're seeing the footage of, you know, women couples, LGBT couples like that, you know, coming to Thailand, having their lifetime enjoying in Thailand. But that's, they can see that that's for the daily routines.

But when it comes to human rights, that's another thing. Because when you look at the perspective of the, you know, same-sex to leive as a couple and enjoy the same rights, because you know that when we talk about human rights, it's about, you know, the minimum requirement for any human being that should enjoy, exercise their rights, right? So all of these rights that should be protected.

So we have to understand that the, basically, human rights is actually broader than the term rights. Because when you talk about human rights, it's something that any human being should at least be able to enjoy. So no one should be discriminated on the ground, on any ground, basically.

You know, like, so if the, for example, the same-sex couple, one passed away, even though that they have been living together for four decades. And then when it comes to the hospital side, they couldn't do anything. And they couldn't contact the family because the family of the other person might, you know, disconnect them since a long time ago.

So this law helped the same-sex couple to enjoy the same rights. Because not having this is called discrimination. So that's why this point, this become the picture, become the visualisation of our advocacy pertaining to LGBT issues.

But it's, so now it's not about the marriage equality anymore, like you just asked. But because now we have reached the milestone for marriage equality already in terms of, you know, allowing individuals to be married, no matter who they are. And one thing that we need to move forward that I will be, that we have to talk about is that it's about the intention of, this is also part of the human rights umbrella.

So now Thailand is trying to advocate for legal gender recognition. So I'm thinking about a couple of the months, the draft for the legal definition will be tabled to the parliament already. You know, the changing the gender markers, a man, Mr. to Ms., Mr. to Mr. So now you have to understand that at the moment around the world, there are approximately 80 countries that have already rectified the legal generation countries. But out of that 75 countries, there are some level of discriminations or some barriers, you know, like, you know, for example, you have to reach the age of maturity first. And some countries you have to go through the medical exam, a long period of the medical examination. Or if you have the heterosexual couple, you have to, you know, get divorced first.

So, or some countries do not allow you to keep your sperms or your ovaries to in the storage, you know. So now, but there are five countries, for example, Argentina, Malta, that actually have the, that use the concept of self-determination not regarding, you know, their physicality or taking people into an account that they are sick and that they need to do this in order to have the gender reassignment surgery, not that we want the, we want self-determination. So the law, our proposed law is based on this concept of self-determination.

So in Thailand, according to our constitution, there are three ways to propose a new law. The first way is the, it came from the at least 20 parliamentarians proposed in the parliament. And the second route is from the government, any government agencies.

And the third one from the civic, from the people. Actually from the people is the most crucial one because whatever laws that, that, that have been succeeded came from the people sector. Actually, people's draft have to be successful, but it's a start to advocate because the finally, eventually the draft from the government would win.

But anyway, it's a good start to show that the, those drafts got, get supports from the people. For example, the gender equality act since the, since the 2015, that we have the gender equality law. So for that one, it's also the same, the same model that we have done, you know, working together with the ministry of social development and human security, advocating inside among the politicians, parliamentarians, that was the one that we have to achieve before, right.

Before the marriage equality. And another, another one, but we, we, we want to work in the future is that the, the laws to end all form of discrimination. So it means that the, you know, that all people that we call in the public health term, we call the vulnerable people, like for example, the youth and then the people with disability, people with sexual, gender diversity, ethnic minorities, people living with HIV, AIDS, people who use drugs, the national migrant workers, non-formal workers, you know, people in these sectors, you know, we are talking about intersectionality of the issues, saying that maybe a trans person could be an older person, right. Could be living with HIV and could be living with disability.

So this kind of intersectionality, we have to understand it. And many, many countries that have already have the laws to protect the, you know, this kind of the discrimination, especially among those who have a lot of identities. So, so having, having the law and discrimination is two, is two different things.

Okay. When we have the, Jeiz, you know, that having the marriage equality and that's the law, right. But having some kind of discrimination, it's still there.

It's still there. Because sometimes the parents will force their sons to be married with another woman. It's still there.

It's still there. And some people still don't have the courage to disperse themselves, to come out from the closet because it's a discrimination is still there. Even though it's, despite the existence of the marriage equality, or even in the workplace, if, you know, a guy, a man getting married with another man, maybe the person may not disclose that in the, in the workplace.

Or even the, or even a person with the Mr. and change their title into Miss, they might still get discriminated in the workplace or in the society. See, even though that they got, they got dress, gender identity, everything is already feminine. But then again, they could be still be rejected from the, from the employment.

Or say, or people of the, or people who are attracted to this, another same-sex person, they still get, they still get discriminated in terms of, you know, not getting the promotion. In Thailand, there's a lot, you know, especially in the government, I have seen that one government official who appear openly or disclose openly as the gay person and who's supposed to get a higher promotion, but then again, it didn't happen. So I would like to tell you that in terms of the, the law itself and the action of discrimination, of the act of discrimination itself, it's two different things.

So, so, so there are two things that we have to work together in parallel, like we advocate for the laws, but we still need to actually work on the, you need to eradicate discrimination. So this is something that we need to do both. And, and one thing that we, we have to do to continue, and maybe, and maybe this, it isn't a never ending mission.

So we have to do until the world exploded, maybe. And one thing that I could tell you is that in terms of the discrimination, as the, as also a lawyer, but there are four, four foundations of the discrimination. First, maybe it happens because people don't know.

[Danny]
Maybe they are curious. Second one is they hate, because of the hatred. The third one is about their values or their personal attitudes, their custom cultures.

And the last one is that it's about the laws and regulation, existing laws and regulation that it might be protecting only a certain group of people, for example, a heterosexual couple. So we have the four, these four areas are the grounds of our work in order to ensure and improve the equality to address this and come up with solutions. These are some things that we can still need to continue.

And in Thailand, well, at the moment, after 10 years, after the one decade, we have seen a lot of movement in terms of the public policies, pertaining to the equality, because we have worked a lot. Well, but this could be my suggestion to other countries as in terms of lessons learned that, well, because in the past 10 years, well, our work with other stakeholders, we work with them, like, let's say that collaboratively, we engage them and work with them collaboratively. There are four different stakeholders that we're talking about.

The first one is their policymakers, right? The governments or the politicians. And the second group is the international organisations, right?

And third is that the civil society, engagement as a civil society, for example, I myself, I'm a part of the NGO, right? And the last one is the engaging the community. And so the people who owns the problem.

So all four, all different stakeholders have to work together. And in Thailand, it's successful because of this. But in the past, the reason that it was successful that, because now I'm 60 years old.

So I did the researches, because people work in silo, you know, separately, government work, their own civil society, our own, and then internationalisation, they keep talking on their own. And then the, and how, how is it diplomatic? So we didn't work together back then.

So that why is what was, it was not successful. But in Thailand now, now it's the environment, it's the ambience, people come to sit on the table and work together from different sectors. And mostly, and mostly these will lead to the success.

For example, I just came back from the meeting in the parliament talking about, talking about the amendment of, just recently, just one hour ago, I just talked, I just talked in a subcommittee about, you know, about, about less crime, you know, the, the hate crime, sorry, hate crime in terms of the, you know, transgender getting, getting killed. You know, that there was, there was a big case in Bangkok a couple of months, a couple of weeks ago that the trans woman was the, was, was murdered, actually, horribly. So that's why we try to push the law that to stop the hate crime like this, and this part of the movement of LGBT, because you can see that you start to see the hate speech, you know, surfacing in the society.

So that's, this, this, that was the meeting that I had an hour ago to talk about, to talk about, you know, just stopping or preventing hate, hate crime, because, because we have seen more emerging reports that trans women being treated badly because of, because of hatred, and being, being murdered on the ground of the, of the hate crime that also, that also, that's, that we propose more punishment, you know, the more harsher punishments.

This is something that we just talked, I just talked about an hour ago.

[Jeiz Robles]
Yeah. Thank you so much, Kun Danny. That's, that's really, like, what a journey.

And you, you have highlighted and responded to, I guess, my last question, which was supposedly advice that you could give activists and allies in other countries who are pushing for similar reforms. You mentioned really close collaborations with the different communities, like the policymakers, the international organisations, civil society engagement, and the LGBTQ community itself. And you also highlighted that there continues to be problems on harassment, discrimination, and even other bigger problems that need to be resolved in Thailand.

So with, with that in mind, I am very appreciative of advocates and activists like you who are pouring in their life and everything towards this inclusive legislation. So thank you so much, Kun Danny. With that, I think we're going to end today's session.

So I'd like to appreciate Kun Danny, Kun Ohm and the Rainbow Sky Association for spending time with us in today's podcast. And if you found this conversation valuable, please do share it with your network, subscribe to our podcast, and connect with us to keep the diversity, equity, and inclusion dialogue going. Again, thank you so much, Kun Danny, Kun Ohm, and until next time.

[Danny]
Thank you so much. I hope to see you next time too.